O'Brien went over to Vietnam a rational, caring, and understanding young man. Now all he can think of is getting revenge even though he no longer hates Jorgenson. "I'd come to this war a quiet, thoughtful sort of person, a college grad, Phi Beta Kappa and summa cum laude, all the credentials, but after seven months in the bush I realized that those high, civilized trappings had somehow been crushed under the wight of the simple daily realities. I'd Turned mean inside." O'Brien has become a hardened, war-stained soldier who can no longer revert back to his former self.
O'Brien wanting to hurt Jorgenson reveals how much war can change an individual. On page 200, O'Brien illustrates how much he has changed from the war. He says, "I'd come to this war a quiet, thoughtful sort of person, a college grad, but after seven months in the bush I realized that htose high, civilized trapings had somehow been crushed under the weight of simple daily realities. I'd turned mean inside. even a little cruel at times. For all my education, all my fine liveral values, I now felt a deep coldness inside me, something dark and beyond reason. I was now capable of evil." O'Brien acknowledges how much he has changed, going from a good liberal minded, college grad student to this cold, hard man capable of evil. This war had sanded away all his niceness, and left underneath a cold, hard surface where a killer now resides.
Kassy Saylor -The change in O'Brien just shows that "war changes everyone." He has went to war not wanting to be there in the first place, and now it has changed him without having a choice in the matter. It's not that he hated him anymore, but says, "I hated him for making me stop hating him." Although O'Brien is making some drastic personal changes, he is still not near as bad as Azar.
O'brien wanting to hurt jorgeson shows him that the mentatility of war has compleatly taken over his life and thoughts. In on the rainy river he says that he cant shot a gun he hates camping and other things, but in this chapter he shows the complete opposite of everything that he swore he is no good at and did not enjoy, it shows that the mentality of a person can change with just a little bit of time in the field and how they can go from someone who couldnt hurt a fly to a cold blooded killer on the battle field.
When O'Brien orignally went to Vietnam, he described himself as a scholar, not a fighter. He wanted to go to school and be successful, not go to war and fight for a cause that he didn't believe in. This idea of him actually wanting to hurt Jorgenson shows how much he changed while he was there. He actually had the want to do someone harm. I think that the events that happened while he was over there made him a different person. He thought of things different, even his reactions to things are different. He feels hostility towards people for things that previously wouldn't have had any effect on him.
O'Brien wanting to hurt Bobby Jorgeson reveals that war and the things that O'Brien has been through can change a person. Before even going to war O'Brien disliked the idea of it. Now after being humiliated by Jorgeson he shows a new side of him. A side that the war has created and he seeks revenge when at first he was ashamed of killing a man that was walking that could have killed him.
Kristine adding to Kassy's O'Brien hates Jorgenson for being the bigger person in this circumstance. O'Brien feels like he has the upper hand because he was in the war before Jorgenson.
I agree with Danielle. She stated the quote about him being a good kid who went to college and received credentials. Yet when he went over to Vietnam, he was no longer distinguished from the other men. He was just a soldier fighting for a cause and this unknown prospect had turned him into a hateful man who was disgusted with this whole war and the people who caused it. He turned that anger onto the men he cared most dear to. He was a changed man.
I agree completely with Nolan and Danielle. O'Brian knew that war wasn't the right choice for him. He was a scholar, not someone that belonged in the war. He was quiet and thoughtful, not full of anger and ready to fight. O'Brian acknowledges the fact that he has changed, and that it isn't a change for the better. In the war, it is always a good thing to be courageous and strong. When Jorgenson failed to treat O'Brian properly, he embarrassed him in one of the worst possible ways-by making him leave the field. Jorgenson took his pride, his family.
Pattie Olson I agree with Danielle. War changes people. A prime example is Mary Anne in pages 94-105. She comes into Nam a bubbly,groomed girly-girl, and comes out a soldier with human teeth around her neck.
As O'Brien's character develops throughout the book we can see that Vietnam has definitely took its toll on him. When he first went to Vietnam he was dumbfounded and felt lost which made him quiet and allowed for him to keep to himself. Now he wants to get revenge on Jergenson who was just like him when he first arrived at the war.
I agree with Kassy's statement. There are few people who have changed because of this war. Some of the people change more than others like Rat Kiley, but it's almost inevitable.
I agree with Noaln and Danielle. O'Brien was a quiet, smart, innocent kid when the war began and he was drafted. Now O'Brien has been hardened by the war. Now that I think about it though I wonder if O'Brien would have done this even if it wasn't for the war. Tim is all about justice and fairness. He even said that the president's daughters should be drafted and other political families. O'Brien thinks that it is only fair that Jorgenson be scared and shocked the way that he was when he was shot. The big difference I see is I wonder if the old TIm would hold a grudge like he is now.
Danielle Williams
ReplyDeleteO'Brien went over to Vietnam a rational, caring, and understanding young man. Now all he can think of is getting revenge even though he no longer hates Jorgenson. "I'd come to this war a quiet, thoughtful sort of person, a college grad, Phi Beta Kappa and summa cum laude, all the credentials, but after seven months in the bush I realized that those high, civilized trappings had somehow been crushed under the wight of the simple daily realities. I'd Turned mean inside." O'Brien has become a hardened, war-stained soldier who can no longer revert back to his former self.
Nolan Surma
ReplyDeleteO'Brien wanting to hurt Jorgenson reveals how much war can change an individual. On page 200, O'Brien illustrates how much he has changed from the war. He says, "I'd come to this war a quiet, thoughtful sort of person, a college grad, but after seven months in the bush I realized that htose high, civilized trapings had somehow been crushed under the weight of simple daily realities. I'd turned mean inside. even a little cruel at times. For all my education, all my fine liveral values, I now felt a deep coldness inside me, something dark and beyond reason. I was now capable of evil." O'Brien acknowledges how much he has changed, going from a good liberal minded, college grad student to this cold, hard man capable of evil. This war had sanded away all his niceness, and left underneath a cold, hard surface where a killer now resides.
Kassy Saylor
ReplyDelete-The change in O'Brien just shows that "war changes everyone." He has went to war not wanting to be there in the first place, and now it has changed him without having a choice in the matter. It's not that he hated him anymore, but says, "I hated him for making me stop hating him." Although O'Brien is making some drastic personal changes, he is still not near as bad as Azar.
Jared
ReplyDeleteO'brien wanting to hurt jorgeson shows him that the mentatility of war has compleatly taken over his life and thoughts. In on the rainy river he says that he cant shot a gun he hates camping and other things, but in this chapter he shows the complete opposite of everything that he swore he is no good at and did not enjoy, it shows that the mentality of a person can change with just a little bit of time in the field and how they can go from someone who couldnt hurt a fly to a cold blooded killer on the battle field.
Anthony
ReplyDeleteWhen O'Brien orignally went to Vietnam, he described himself as a scholar, not a fighter. He wanted to go to school and be successful, not go to war and fight for a cause that he didn't believe in. This idea of him actually wanting to hurt Jorgenson shows how much he changed while he was there. He actually had the want to do someone harm. I think that the events that happened while he was over there made him a different person. He thought of things different, even his reactions to things are different. He feels hostility towards people for things that previously wouldn't have had any effect on him.
O'Brien wanting to hurt Bobby Jorgeson reveals that war and the things that O'Brien has been through can change a person. Before even going to war O'Brien disliked the idea of it. Now after being humiliated by Jorgeson he shows a new side of him. A side that the war has created and he seeks revenge when at first he was ashamed of killing a man that was walking that could have killed him.
ReplyDeleteEthan^
ReplyDeleteKristine adding to Kassy's
ReplyDeleteO'Brien hates Jorgenson for being the bigger person in this circumstance. O'Brien feels like he has the upper hand because he was in the war before Jorgenson.
Stef
ReplyDeleteI agree with Danielle. She stated the quote about him being a good kid who went to college and received credentials. Yet when he went over to Vietnam, he was no longer distinguished from the other men. He was just a soldier fighting for a cause and this unknown prospect had turned him into a hateful man who was disgusted with this whole war and the people who caused it. He turned that anger onto the men he cared most dear to. He was a changed man.
Amber Janson
ReplyDeleteI agree completely with Nolan and Danielle. O'Brian knew that war wasn't the right choice for him. He was a scholar, not someone that belonged in the war. He was quiet and thoughtful, not full of anger and ready to fight. O'Brian acknowledges the fact that he has changed, and that it isn't a change for the better. In the war, it is always a good thing to be courageous and strong. When Jorgenson failed to treat O'Brian properly, he embarrassed him in one of the worst possible ways-by making him leave the field. Jorgenson took his pride, his family.
Pattie Olson
ReplyDeleteI agree with Danielle. War changes people. A prime example is Mary Anne in pages 94-105. She comes into Nam a bubbly,groomed girly-girl, and comes out a soldier with human teeth around her neck.
Jimbo Krause
ReplyDeleteAs O'Brien's character develops throughout the book we can see that Vietnam has definitely took its toll on him. When he first went to Vietnam he was dumbfounded and felt lost which made him quiet and allowed for him to keep to himself. Now he wants to get revenge on Jergenson who was just like him when he first arrived at the war.
Jimbo Krause
ReplyDeleteI agree with Kassy's statement. There are few people who have changed because of this war. Some of the people change more than others like Rat Kiley, but it's almost inevitable.
Sam Snyder
ReplyDeleteI agree with Noaln and Danielle. O'Brien was a quiet, smart, innocent kid when the war began and he was drafted. Now O'Brien has been hardened by the war. Now that I think about it though I wonder if O'Brien would have done this even if it wasn't for the war. Tim is all about justice and fairness. He even said that the president's daughters should be drafted and other political families. O'Brien thinks that it is only fair that Jorgenson be scared and shocked the way that he was when he was shot. The big difference I see is I wonder if the old TIm would hold a grudge like he is now.